As someone who philosophically identifies as Anarchist, I can't rectify how a people who lived without a country for thousands of years, witnessing and documenting all of the vile evils committed by the entities known as countries for that whole time, just to perpetuate their existence, could possibly think, "Oh, we should do that!".
I assume that it is well understood, amongst Anarchists, that countries have to murder, steal, and commit all kinds of gross crimes just to survive as countries. Individuals don't usually have to, but countries do. The Jewish people have borne witness to the worst of the worst offenders, at all scales, for their entire history, and most of them decided that this was not their path, their path was to exist within their own enclave, never using violence to survive, despite being the victims of the violence of others countless times. Yet some, small minority cult, decided to ape the states they had spent so long resisting.
Almost the totality of orthodox rabbis initially denounced the early Zionist movement of Theodor Herzl, including denouncing Herzl himself. I learned quite a fair bit years ago the extent of this in a few of Marvin Antelmann's publications. Others have written a fair bit about the subject since him. But one thing that has become clear is that during the first five to six decades of the 20th century, much of the Jewish world was progressively coerced politically into lining up behind Zionism. This is a story that many scholars already know about, but it is one that needs much further amplification.
Recently, my interest in Frankism and what became of them has been piqued again from where I left off some two decades ago when studying about them. To me, Herzl and his movement appears - as a shorthand way - as a sort of Frankist infiltration of Judaism. In one of his well known studies, Antelmann essentially framed things from this lens.
Interesting point about the Jewish camping movement. As a small town Jew, my camping movement experience in the states was similar to your experience. I liked the left wing hippie vibe too, but there was a promotion of Israel and Zionism without any criticism. In the mid-90s, the last camp unit evolved into an ‘Israel Trip.’
As someone who philosophically identifies as Anarchist, I can't rectify how a people who lived without a country for thousands of years, witnessing and documenting all of the vile evils committed by the entities known as countries for that whole time, just to perpetuate their existence, could possibly think, "Oh, we should do that!".
I assume that it is well understood, amongst Anarchists, that countries have to murder, steal, and commit all kinds of gross crimes just to survive as countries. Individuals don't usually have to, but countries do. The Jewish people have borne witness to the worst of the worst offenders, at all scales, for their entire history, and most of them decided that this was not their path, their path was to exist within their own enclave, never using violence to survive, despite being the victims of the violence of others countless times. Yet some, small minority cult, decided to ape the states they had spent so long resisting.
Almost the totality of orthodox rabbis initially denounced the early Zionist movement of Theodor Herzl, including denouncing Herzl himself. I learned quite a fair bit years ago the extent of this in a few of Marvin Antelmann's publications. Others have written a fair bit about the subject since him. But one thing that has become clear is that during the first five to six decades of the 20th century, much of the Jewish world was progressively coerced politically into lining up behind Zionism. This is a story that many scholars already know about, but it is one that needs much further amplification.
Recently, my interest in Frankism and what became of them has been piqued again from where I left off some two decades ago when studying about them. To me, Herzl and his movement appears - as a shorthand way - as a sort of Frankist infiltration of Judaism. In one of his well known studies, Antelmann essentially framed things from this lens.
Interesting point about the Jewish camping movement. As a small town Jew, my camping movement experience in the states was similar to your experience. I liked the left wing hippie vibe too, but there was a promotion of Israel and Zionism without any criticism. In the mid-90s, the last camp unit evolved into an ‘Israel Trip.’
Thanks Danny, this is helpful for me